In 2008, KMT defeated DPP in both parliament and presidential election. After that, the relationship of Taiwan and China went better than before. Activities including shipping, commerce and student exchanging are getting more and more frequent than usual. A great wave of people followed Taiwanese businessmen westward aiming to earn a great fortune in this “1.3 billion Market”. During that time, Hu had already gain her career success through many years of being journalist in “Commercial times” and “Business weekly”. She is very familiar with the financial circle of Taiwan. Yet she believes that Taiwan is too small for her and cannot give her more achievement if she stays. Since Beijing is a place of many important news, she asked her friend to introduce a job for her in Beijing.

In 2009, Hu enter the “Caijing Magazine” in China under the condition of lesser salary. She then worked her journalist career in the field of foreign investment, finance and startup business. Eight years later, her salary went doubled many times. She can proudly say that she is one of the “Pusher” in techno-business startups in China of recent years.

Hu is not a Chinese citizen, therefore impossible to have a press card. Originally thinking it would bring difficulties to her journalist career in China, but at the end proved that there can always have an exception. ““Caijing Magazine” is special because they are backed by Prince Party. They had Taiwanese interns before, so I know they might consider me to get in because many important persons had already switch to different companies. I am very important to them because I understand the field of foreign investments well. So I get in without any difficulties.”

In addition, Hu explained that China still needs more talents in many fields to meet its own development goals. Yet they do not need too many persons from Europe or America. So the country welcomes many professionals from Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan. That is why many Taiwanese can work in China now.

Hu talked about banking and securities industry as an example. She pointed out that during the Chinese financial liberalization progress, experiences and professionals from Taiwan had an important role. Such as China Merchant Bank, it was built solely by a team from Taiwan’s China Trust. Yuanta Securities was established under the same model. “When they create a new market, they prefer using many Taiwanese. Semiconductor industry must be the same. If Chinese investors have global market goals, they prefer hiring Taiwanese.”

In her understanding, the restrictions working in China is not as many as imagined. The hard part is the job itself! She often worried about how to maintain a job since the media market there is often changing in rapid speed. There was a moment when Hu felt very frustrated and sad after failures. However, when you overcome those sadness and failures, a better and more skillful person you will become. That is the greatest lesson she learned from China.

She said, “There won’t be prospect for industries if there is no possibilities for people. My characteristics suit China well. There are many people like me which Taiwanese often refer as wolves. But I don’t think myself as wolf, I take good care of my younger colleagues. I want to do something different from others, something none has ever done before. I want to try if I can accomplish that. I went to Beijing for a job when no other journalist in the financial field in Taiwan had ever done before. I think that is really cool. A predictable life is not what I want. When people have possibilities, more and more of them will try different things, thus bringing industries more possibilities. You will get bolder and bolder in the progress. After winning once you certainly will hope to win a greater triumph and to do crazier things.”

During these years, Taiwan saw the shrinking of traditional media, unknown future of new media and the stagnant of economy. Hu witnessed the same revolutionary changes from media in China. Yet she did not lose her enthusiasm in media and switch position to PR department like her many peers. “Wolf culture in China” let her saw an eager spirit for survival different than in Taiwan. Her ambition on accumulating knowledge of startup businesses and market expansion made her career went further. From journalist to chief editor, and later on chief executive. Now she is eagerly preparing to create her own startup business. She had discovered that she is actually suitable for China.

For a person who once suffered from depression due to career difficulties and went to psychiatrist for half a year, also taunted by tens of thousands of “Pink Patriots” as “Bastards supporting Taiwan independence, get out of China”, it may be weird to say herself suitable for China. But this senior financial journalist, who express her Taiwan independence speeches on Facebook and criticized mercilessly on Chinese society (and Taiwanese society also), said she actually has a different feeling toward China. This feeling came from several years of her witness of entrepreneur spirit in China.

She said “When I came in 2009, the world is not like this. There were little who believes in startup business. But now my colleagues all believe that if you are familiar with internet and know how to run business, you may just succeed even you are not dinning with big media bosses or having Baidu resources. These are something I have been through. I believe myself as one of the pushers for these conversions. The slogan of Alibaba is “Make it easy to do business anywhere”, which I think it had become a common belief of new generations in China. Nowadays, p2p financial service is leading one person directly to another, It distributes power to each person and gives everyone the equal right to do business. People can do business without POS or dealing stuffs with banks; for example, if you have a tricycle, all you need is to put a QR Code sticker on it, it can be a business as well. There are too many things happened such as these.”

“My feeling toward China is different from other Taiwanese have, because I know what kind of agony they have suffered to change their own life. I am much localized at this part. Americans needs to fight with wilderness in old times while China needs to fight the party itself now. I am worried about the world created by these younger generations might be destroyed someday. We came from a place with total freedom, there are so many things (regulations) we cannot tolerate. Our tolerance is even weaker than the Chinese. Although I know I can leave at any time, but there is no way for them to escape.”

However, it is exactly because she is “localized” and has feelings toward China, Hu has more worries and concerns on Taiwan’s situation. Compared to China, she definitely loves Taiwan more, but she also said, “Wages in Taiwan is impossible to find talented employers. I dare not come back to Taiwan if no one want to invest me, unless I make enough money. Brain drain in Taiwan is caused by low wages, the most urgent problem is money, the other important thing is possibilities of prospect.”

Hu thinks brain drain will bring Taiwan permanent harm lasting for a whole generation. Taiwan’s most urgent plan should be attracting more talented people, and there should be less regulations on startup businesses. We must revolutionize our industrial structure and welcome universal talents.

“For now, we can only attract people from India and Southeast Asia, but it must be done one step at a time and open our market little by little; the amount is discussable. As for kinds of industry to open, leave industries to decide but not by government. Hiring foreigners has risky concerns such like languages, cultures and local environments. There must be more benefits than disadvantages while companies considering to hire foreign employee, therefore it’s important to let private sectors to have the right to decide and government must not intervene. The policy making in Taiwan should not be topped down anymore.”

Hu emphasizes that we should not take those foreign national professionals as competitors or job-stealers, because “working with smart people is not called competition. It is a pleasant experience! Taking it as competition means you only see the negative aspects”. She thinks Taiwanese used to focus on domestic market in the past, but if we welcome more international talents to come they will bring new markets, therefore we should open to the world. “If you only view a foreigner as a job-stealer, then the country will become more and more sealed. Acer had its foreign CEO aiming to do business in international market, we used to have these kind of experiences, how come we become so closed now? ”

As a Taiwanese working in China, she did not understand China at first. She needed help, so she learned to work with suitable team. They helped each other out and learned new things while quickly adapted to teamwork. If the working environment in Taiwan can be as open as here, then it will get better eventually. Finally, Hu emphasized that there is still a strong hierarchy culture in Taiwan’s working place. If leaders cannot adapt changing, then they must learn to hand over their power. Welcoming foreign talents is a way to change Taiwan’s working place and industries.

“Learning to adapt new culture will bring change. Maybe it goes very slow at first, but it is a start. No need to say anything, just give it a fight!”

Hai (pseudonym) worked in a big Taiwanese electronics factory A company for six and a half years after his graduation form school. He witnessed the number of A company’s engineers growing from 2,000 to 7,000. His software department had gotten dozens of patents which he himself was the main inventor. Leading many programs and integrating numerous departments, Hai had been promoted fast and achieved many career successes at a rather young age. Despite having numerous titles and high payment, not to mention his good future in the company, Hai chose to leave after all.

2013 was a good year for both A company and Hai. However, he still put his resume on LinkedIn and planned to set off aboard. Before long, Apple, Amazon and Intel all interviewed with him and planned sending him to work in Europe, America or China. But he eventually went to Seoul, Korea and got a job in a smart phone department of a Multinational Corporation B company.

Everyone believes that Hai was only attracted by high salary, but he said, “there were two main reasons that push me to leave, one is the worry of the overall prospect of economic environment, the other is the anxiety of losing competitiveness.” What he had observed is, although the technological strength of Taiwan is none-inferior to any other countries, but the smart phone industries had already appeared to be highly homogenized. Fierce competition will cause lower profits, besides 5G phones is only possible to be commercialized in 2020. Conclude all concerns above, Hai believes it is time for him to leave Taiwan and learn something beyond technological engineering.

Hai explained that he doesn’t like American food and culture, plus the department inviting him is not his preferable choice. Therefore he rejected the job which everybody wants. As for rising China, Hai thought that he cannot gain real international experience due to share cultures and language. At last, he decided to went to Korea, a country which is not even in his radar.

B company is hiring international talents under a long term plan, they actually has a specialized department to deal with visas for their foreign employees and even offers education subsidy for their children. Hai said that the difficulties other companies’ foreign employees might face may not happen in B company.

“B company had many foreign employees back in the days. But it get lesser and lesser during previous economic downturn… There are two kinds of foreign employees in B company. One is someone with specialties what local employees don’t, whom they seldom laid off. The other is almost like local employees, but for B company they are there to change the stiff Korean office culture into more international type. They are changing their office culture strategically, and that is a good point of B company comparing to Taiwanese companies.

Although in reality, foreign employees are the ones that being changed by Korean office culture, after all, Koreans are famous for their strong collective consciousness and hierarchical social system. However, Hai thought that B company has advantage on their high-level strategic thinking; they are deliberately importing foreign resources to strengthen their company, and this is a lesson worth learning for Taiwanese companies.

Not just for formal employees, B company had also been recruiting students (mostly MBA) from 19 top Universities around the world by offering high salary for them to come to work as employees and interns. For B company, their contacts in universities, professional skills and familiarity toward different markets are all worth researching and making use of. Moreover, these excellent interns have a high chance staying in the company and get formal offer. Hai thinks it is really unfortunate that Taiwan hadn’t had this kind of system.

At first, Hai believed that he can be seen by international companies was because of his technological skills and numerous patents he hold. But when he entered B company, his job was more like company’s contact person for China and Taiwan partners. He felt like his talent has been wasted.

“Before I was here, I thought I will learn many things. After I came, they didn’t make good use of my talent which I think useful. I panicked a bit because I was anxious about not being able to accumulate professional skills. But then I change my mind. If I am just learning new skills, then I might as well staying in Taiwan. Learning project managing is the same, it only adds more title for me. So I change my thoughts. Taiwanese are weak in multi-language collaboration. If I learn my Korean well, then I will have more advantages back in Taiwan. A person with multi-language ability is better than a person only good at skills.”

“Honestly speaking, I learned less technological technics in B company than in Taiwan. I am more like a small gear inside a big machine here. While in Taiwan I must learn everything always afraid of hadn’t learned enough. But B company is just too big. Staying here gives me a feeling that I am staying in a nation-owned enterprise which I can work until my retirement. They do not worry much for future. It is kind of like working in ITRI where you work under stress and long hours yet you won’t quit and will continue to work for many years. There are no worries about losing jobs just because you had not learned enough. They believe their company will always find a suitable job for you. Our worries and manager’s requirement are all different. Taiwanese manager requires you to think more and learn more while B company only gives you commands. It comes with pros and cons.

Currently in B company, most foreigners are from India and China, Japanese may be the third group. According to Hai’s observation, Taiwanese engineers are no less in talent and experience than engineers from those countries or Korea. And we work hard enough so there is nothing to worry about.

But he also pointed out what Taiwan really lacked of is people with innovative and strategic thinking. If Taiwanese companies hope to strengthen themselves through recruiting international talents, then they must first find these people. We do not need more Indian engineers here in Taiwan. He then switched the conversation subject and said in worries, “Taiwan is not short of intermediate and high rank talents, what we need is stronger integration. Hunting for greatest talents is one thing, but it could be only functional when we put them on the right position.”

“Our thinking of strategy stays in hand-to-hand combat, we only know tactics but understand nothing on strategic level, and this is a problem can’t be solved only by recruiting foreign talents.” From changing office culture through strategically hiring foreigners to integrating resources within departments and sharing information, Hai thinks that Taiwan can learn a lot from B company about the scale of strategic thinking and the openness to international talents. Along with the protection of local companies in Korea and the highly integration of both the entire industries and infrastructures (from software to platform), there are too many things Taiwan can learn from Korea. It is right for Taiwan to welcome international talents, but putting those people on the right position is only step one. We have so many things need to be changed so that we may able to compete in global market.

“We tend to focus on how emerging industries can attract talents, but there is one point in Korea we can’t miss which is their strong protection policy for domestic industries. For example, Taiwan used to have companies like KIMO but what we are using are all foreign products such as LINE and Facebook. Everything we are using are all hold by foreign companies. While in Korea, they use only local stuffs. They have their own NAVER and on-line map services, many services are provided by local enterprises, and that is very important.”

Hai thinks that Taiwanese companies are used to fight alone, since we don’t have a basic platform to integrate and so many things hold by foreign companies, that will put us under disadvantage condition in modern technology warfare. Our weaknesses are many while comparing to Korea. We dare not to dream big for survival is just hard enough for us.

“Many services cannot interlink while the overall scale is not big enough. Without integration there is no value for startups nowadays. That is the most important reason why Taiwan is unable to raise innovative businesses. Korea puts many resources in emerging companies even they may be bought or merged by big corporation, at least they have this kind of business model.” He emphasized that, besides talent shortage, lacking of high-level strategic thinking and integration platform are the other two weaknesses of Taiwan. There is no way to create new value if we don’t solve these problems, and thus makes us unable to get rid of low-wage problem, meanwhile no prospect at all. The problems are still the same, and we still have little attraction toward international talents.

Hai said, Korea has good payment, living environment and infrastructures are well developed as well; that means, to attract foreigners, we must pay attention to the impression Taiwan is going to give to the world. “It is very important. Foreigners don’t know Taiwan, they only know us through impressions. We must build better images both in software and hardware. Like many Koreans, they originally believed Taiwan is just like other Southeastern Asia countries, but after they actually came, they changed their views. However, they may just refuse our invitation at first. Therefore, it is important to build our international image in advance.”

Chen came to love the environment when he was taking MBA classes at University of Rhode Island. However, studying aboard is not the same as working aboard. Thinking it would be both terrifying and lonely working in the U.S., he went back to Taiwan to find employment after finishing his master’s degree. Chen ended up worked for Pou Chen’s Nike division as a market developer for over a year, with a salary just above NT$40,000 ($1329.47).

Chen later taught economics and finance at Ling Tung Institute of Technology (now Ling Tung University) for three years. Although he had to take on additional work in school administration and admissions, Chen loved the stability of being a professor and being able to enjoy summer and winter vacations. So he started to consider a career as an educator. During those years, many technological institution were reorganizing into universities of technology, and the schools would subsidize faculty members to study aboard, with the opportunity to return and teach afterwards. Chen also went aboard, but he never thought he would never come back, and that the choice would cost him a fortune.

In his first year in the U.S. as a Ph.D. student, Chen spent almost all his savings accumulated over the years. He had to rely on his wife in Taiwan for financial support, which weighed heavily on him. Originally, he had planned to return to teach in Taiwan immediately after graduating. “I never thought I would teach here. My plan was to go back to Taiwan and find a job as soon as possible. Even before my last semester, as a Ph.D. candidate, I did not change my mind. But when I went back to America for my last semester, I saw my classmates had already found jobs, some of them were paid over a hundred thousand dollars a year. That was the time I started to think, ‘maybe I should stay in America.’”

Chen said that if you have the means, you can manage to secure a very high salary in American schools. Even among faculty member of the same department, there are those paid fifty thousand dollars a year, and there are those paid two hundred thousand dollars a year. It is just the norm. However, professors in Taiwan are paid mostly at the same level. This of course does not appeal to those with the talent.

Besides salary, the other thing that keeps Chen in the US is the respect extended toward faculty members. “In America, I sent my application first and took a phone interview later. After that they arranged tickets and travel expenses for me to go to another interview. I did sent my application to a national university in Taiwan at the same time, but they needed every candidate to fly over by themselves. All arrangements were accommodating the school. The difference was huge…”

“My wife did not agreed with me for staying in America. I said to her that I wanted to stay. Working experience in America would be an advantage for me when I do come back to Taiwan. Also, I was almost 40 back then, I wanted to recuperate my investment quickly. I had no money at the time, all of which I spent studying in my first school. I was under intense financial pressure.

Given the manyfold difference between wages, different levels of respect from the schools and future prospects, plus that he had begun to get used to being apart from his family, Chen decided to stay in America for a “trial.” What he did not know was that this trial would last nearly two decades. After years of teaching, he found out that America’s teaching environment is simple and the evaluation system fair and transparent. Teaching in Taiwan, on the other hand, requires networking with others, which complicate things, and pushed Chen further away from returning to Taiwan.

As a foreigner working for many years in the US, Chen said that despite existing racial and class issues in America, there is almost no discrimination on nationality. Instead, he believed that in advanced education, Americans hold no advantage. He pointed out that in American academia, there is no differences between locals and foreigners, only that whether you can work there legally. Discriminations during interviews are not tolerated. Schools even have specialized departments reviewing interview questions, so that there are no questions regarding marriage, sexual orientation and nationality, which are against the law.

“I have interviewed many people myself in America. Even if there are nineteen foreigners out of twenty candidates, no discriminations would exist. Many of my colleagues are not Americans. I guess my colleagues prefer using non-Americans, hence there is no discrimination based on nationalities. Finding jobs here are just as hard for locals. It may not even be fair for Americans. I don’t think Taiwanese can tolerate having to compete with foreigners on an equal basis while job hunting.”

Besides the absence of any discrimination based on nationalities during interview, even working visas are relatively easy to apply. Universities in the U.S. have specialized departments for international employees on Visa affairs. People with doctorate degree are all regarded as Specialized Professionals so there is no quota for their H1B visa. During their working period, their spouses families can stay in the US. They have nearly every right Americans have, except for political rights (such as voting). It is more convenient than Taiwan both administratively and in terms of safeguarding various rights. Meanwhile, Chen said, the level of ease at which one can work in America actually depends on career type. According to his observation, the professions which the US government claims to welcome international professionals are in fact the ones where they are lacking in human resource. Still, Chen also believes that there aren’t many special requirements for a lot of professions, so he understands why Americans may feel they are not protected by their own country despite an openminded society.

Teaching international business administration, Chen understands that for corporations it is natural to recruit talented persons. It would definitely be an obstruction for corporations if governments adopt protective measure for local employees at every turn. However, he also sympathizes for locals who struggle to find a job. He believes American immigration policies has already harmed African-Americans and other minorities at the bottom of society. It is also harmful for those countries exporting human resources.

Chen gave an example, “Around 70% of employees in Silicon Valley are foreigners. Americans cannot compete with these people. It is very contradictory for there is also a high proportion of foreign students studying natural and applied sciences in America. And, almost one third of all doctors in America are Indians or Pakistanis. As for nurses in California, Pilipino nurses stand for a large proportion. In India, if people can go aboard, they will go because it is cheap for them to go to university in India. But if they all go to America, isn’t it the poor in India who would suffer the most?”

“Disney had closed its IT department in recent years and contracted all the jobs to India. They even asked the original staff to finishing training Indians before they get their disbursements. Won’t you be angry if you were an American?” Chen admitted, “If my daughter grows up in America and doesn’t get a job when a Taiwanese student does, my feelings will definitely be complicated.”

Even when he is upset about this situation, as a professor of business administration, he maintained, “I agree that Taiwanese schools recruit the best teachers from aboard, because talent is all you need. But from a Taiwanese standpoint, I think there should be a compromise. You can hire foreigners when Taiwanese are not talented enough.”

We can see contradictory feelings in Chen. This kind of emotion can be seen not only in his perspective as someone who works aboard, but also on his living habits. For example, although he is a professional on international business administration, he seldom go to chain stores and department stores. He stays in the countryside when he goes back to Taiwan and avoid spending money in big cities, hoping to protect local businesses. At the same time, he believes in corporate competitiveness and the utmost importance of personal career advancement. Everything seems uncoordinated in his life.

Despite cherishing his homeland, Chen still encourages Taiwanese to work aboard and doubts that Taiwanese working environment can really attract international talents. He currently has no intention to return to Taiwan. He believes that the fundamental problem in Taiwan is still low wages. Even the law becomes easier for foreigners to come, it is still not very attractive. “Why should they come for the low wages in Taiwan?” “Some of those learning finances in the U.S. have a starting salary up of two hundred thousand dollars. I don’t see why they should come to Taiwan…I also can not understand why some professors in NTU and NCCU returned to work in Taiwan while they can teach in any university in America.”

“I have left for 20 years so there is little I still understand about Taiwan. I always tell others to stay aboard and not to return to Taiwan. The wages are too low, and living conditions are not better. Prices of everyday supplements and housing are ridiculously high. I feel pity for Taiwan when I say this. But considering personal career advancement, it is logical to stay aboard where one could be treated reasonably.” Chen said with a sigh.

Maybe some readers still remember the debates on internet when speaking of the “Act for Recruitment and Employment of Foreign Professional Talent”

The Facebook page “impolite.tw” openly criticized legislator Yu for her open objections to the foreigner employment draft under Ma’s government in March, 2016. At that time, Yu said if we replace minimum wages with the grading system the Act would become a loophole for blue-collar workers that pretend to be white-collar workers.“Impolite.tw” said that after Ma left office, Yu suddenly changed her position and started to support this policy. She also did not ask for a NT$47,971 minimum wages when hiring foreign talents.

To defend her position, Yu took part in the debate in person several times in June. She produced summary documents to defend provisions on minimum wages, job seeking visa and internship, and also debated with DPP legislator Lin Shu-fen, New Power Party assistant Chen Wei-ting, along with Wang I-Kai, former assistant of legislator Lin Tai-hua.

Yu wrote on Facebook back then, “Under this Act, internships for foreigners are recognized by the competent authority in central government. So minimum wages can be discussed. However, I'm here point out that it is pointless to set minimum wages that is very low because it would have no appeal to foreigners who would have to go to great lengths to come. But if we set it too high, then it certainly would affect the space with which small companies and startup may make their hires, which is against the spirit of this Act.

It is like a coin: on one side, recruiting foreign talents to help us raise the value of our production, and on the other local labor force may be partially replaced. You can’t just choose the good side and discard the bad side. Nor can you stop the whole Act due to the small concern of low wages. In theory, yes, there might be low wages and fake internship or part-time jobs. But in reality, the proportion is too small to be concerned about. Consider this: wouldn’t it seem strange that we blame 458 foreign interns for the low wages problem of our 10 million laborers?”

However, her arguments hadn’t been widely accepted. The debate dragged on. During our interview with Yu in late June, she said, “I actually don’t believe this Act can solve our problems on finding talented. I am really skeptical. Just like our attempt at entrepreneur visa in the past, where we thought there would be two thousand applicants and it turned out to be less than a hundred. We need to learn from our mistakes. What have we done wrong in that process? It cannot be solved by simply passing an Act. I believe it is a matter of national security and power. This is not my Act, I never insisted on internship or any such aspects.”

Although the debates on this Act focus mainly on job seeking, internship and tax benefits, Yu admitted that the issues most likely to be resolved by this Act is the residency and quality of life for foreigners already in Taiwan. These would help “preserve” existing talents. As for recruiting new talents, Yu had put it bluntly that this Act “is more about preserving talents. Recruiting is not a thing that can be solved by passing a piece of legislation”, “This Act achieves little in dealing with problems in that regard. It is aimed mainly at solving the problems that foreigners here are already facing.”

In other words, this Act is considered by legislators of the ruling party as only a method to preserve foreign talents who already live here. Hence, those who argue that foreigners are discouraged by Taiwan’s bad working environment don’t seem to be included in the scope of Yu’s arguments.

“I wouldn’t insist on the controversial parts. For example, legislator Lin Shu-fen’s concerns are that of labor. But I think for startups the Act is good enough. I think regulations for startups could be a little different and more flexible.” In the end, from the controversies of entrepreneur visa in July, 2015 and that of foreign white-collar workers recently, the focus of the National Development Council has always been the development of startups and the relatively small number of foreigners in Taiwan. That is why it is difficult for the NDC to converse with those advocating labor issues, because the subjects are in fact entirely different.

However, the Act still includes provisions on labor, education, health insurance, pension, and tax reduction. If passed, it would become rules that are generally enforceable. And the draft would not be limited to regulating startups. Once the loophole is opened, there is no turning back. Yu’s position shift, from defending the legislation to “not insisting on including controversial parts”, makes one wonder if it is simply for the sake of facilitating the Act’s passage.

Yu said that even if the controversial provisions of internship or that of job seeking visa could not be passed in the Legislative Yuan, companies will always find a solution. It is not a big deal. “But you can’t just close the door simply because there are concerns. That is not a good approach. I believe in discourse. You can of course criticize all you want, but I think we should all participate in the discussion for the benefit of progressing the issue.”

For the sake of discussion, what is Yu's position on these controversial issues? First, on Article 8, “For foreign employees with employment gold cards, half the annual amount over NT$ 2 million in their first three years in Taiwan are tax exempt.” Yu said this creates an incentive for companies to hire foreign talents. Such tax exemption benefits both companies and foreign employees, so it would be a plausible method. She believes it is an “acceptable” amount of tax cut, but remains open to discussions. She hope people can also consider the spillover effect on domestic consumption brought about by foreigners in Taiwan with high wages.

As for Internship, Yu said if people are really concerned, then maybe we should consider amending the conditions for student laborers under cooperative education programs in the Labor Standards Act, in which there are no regulations on internship wages. The Ministry of Education is drafting a piece of designated legislation, which Yu believes should be the correct approach if that is enough to address the issue. To her knowledge, there are only a small number of foreign interns each year in Taiwan. Plus, startups are usually not that inclined to use interns, so she wouldn’t insist on this issue. “The National Development Council estimated that there might be two hundred new interns coming to Taiwan a year after the Act is passed. I don’t expect that much. We’d be lucky if there’re fifty. I don’t think there’d be much trouble in this regard.” Yu said.

This Act involves a great number of different government agencies and stipulates a great number of exceptions to existing legislations. Many specific items are also referred back to respective competent authorities, which in practice is unlikely to ignore the NDC’s position. So, could this Act render provisions in existing regulations, such as Immigration Act, Employment Service Act, National Health Insurance Act, and Income Basic Tax Act useless? To this, Yu’s answer was rather vague.

“Why are we not leaving such matters in the hands of individuals agencies? Because this legislation’s provisions are strategically placed and worded. There are laws and regulations that involve National Immigration Agency, Ministry of the Interior, Ministry of Education, and Ministry of Labor that needs to be amended. So it is easier to resolve all the issues regarding foreign talents with this single Act. There’re many similar cases internationally, where countries have designated legislations for recruiting foreign talents. To amend each piece of existing legislation would just take too long, hence the emergence of this Act. Since there’re so many different issues to address, the discussion and the Act itself really doesn’t focus on any specific one.”

Taiwan International Workers Association (TIWA) has for many years worked on immigrant workers’ rights. To most people, TIWA’s attention goes to those working in construction sites or to caregivers of elders and the disabled—the so-called “foreign laborers” and “foreign nurses”. However, to Wu, they are all laborers and everyone is equal regardless of jobs, social status and the color of one collars. They are all “foreign laborers”. So naturally, TIWA had their attentions on this specific legislation about “high-ranked white-collar workers”.

Wu said that the draft issued by the National Development Council has problems regarding to the internship system, tax-benefits, and job seeking visa. Over the course of the interview, several items were mentioned that were “most ridiculous”, “most exasperating”, “most preposterous”, “most controversial”, “most objectionable”, and “ most disgusting”. These items are presented below in an attempt accurately reflect Wu’s opinions.

The most ridiculous: National Development Council is the competent authority

The most ridiculous thing I believe about this legislation is that the competent authority is assigned to the National Development Council. Some matters may need to be discussed with Ministry of Education or Ministry of Labor, but all final decisions come from the National Development Council because no one dares say no to them. Now it is all about “the economy”, and even the Ministry of Labor does not report to the Council, it is acting like the latter’s staff.

The most unacceptable: Job seeking visa for one year

The most unacceptable thing is that when many foreign spouses are looking for jobs under the impression of being a marriage fraud, these white-collars can have a whole year to find jobs. It is totally okay to give them time, but currently blue-collar workers have only two months to find new jobs when they have issues with former employers. At least give them the same amount of time! Maybe it will cost a big impact with new recruits, but at least you can apply the same standard to those blue-collars that are already here, can’t you? They have made their contribution to Taiwan, why can’t they have a year to look for jobs while white-collar workers can?

The most preposterous: Tax Benefits

I see no sense in tax benefits. It is preposterous to earn more but paying less taxes. I mean, even smoking is taxed. It is all just helping employers to save more money for themselves.

The most controversial: Minimum wages

You need more research when you are trying to regulate minimum wages when hiring foreign white-collar workers. Every profession have its own average wages, and in some professions, such as engineers, they might be above NT$47,971. The legislation states that it is legal to hire professionals if salaries are higher than NT$47,971. But does it meet the average wage in all professions?? If not, then you are just lowering their salaries.

Several years ago there was a discussion to bring our workers back from aboard. So they raised the Employment Stability Fund to try balancing quantity with prices, so you can hire more people and receive more funds from it. We knew some employers would rather pay more to the Employment Stability Fund to hire more foreign blue-collar workers, where the company could save more than just salaries—foreign blue-collar workers are easier to handle and companies do not need to pay for their pensions.

Still, All these other provisions seem trivial. You can tell what they really want is the internship in article 20. The other problem is the tax-free part. In other international cases, internship always causes big problems with its many loopholes, so we shouldn’t agree to this provision.

The most objectionable: Internship system

Article 19 looks nothing like an internship regulation. I once asked THE Union and they shared the same thought. Basically this article aims at foreign graduates or people less than two years from their graduation. But you are not a student after graduation. They are clearly all laborers. This article should be erased.

The mentoring system is what can be considered as internship. You do and I learn. They are still learning from their internship. After they have done their learnings they can become formal laborers. This is what internship is all about. But when you put interns into working places and let them start working for you, then they are creating commercial value which requires payments. Even they are still learning, they learn it from work. That is what the employers need to provide to their employees. It is called a job when you let employers benefit from the result of their work.

Last Legislative Yuan session also discussed the grading system. Anyone who worked should be considered a laborer, even overseas Chinese students. Internship, or whatever they are trying to implemented, is all an excuse to lower labor benefits, just like what’s done to student laborers under cooperative education programs. Universities nowadays are all job-oriented. They clearly serve capitalists. The internship after two years of graduation is just an excuse to benefit capitalists. We absolutely object to that.

The most disgusting: Only foreign white-collar workers are considered as people

After I read this draft, my greatest impression was that I had heard nothing but bullshit from the government. On the matter of employment gold card, they said if we want specific foreign talents to come, we need to resolve certain issues when they are applying for employment permissions, job switching permissions, and multiple jobs permissions, and the like. So we imported the PEP system from Singapore. You can switch employers, do multiple jobs. It is needed when you wish to maintain regular laborers. For recruiting international laborers, it is good. For us, laborers have full protection regarding their movement.

Family reunion right is good. It is also good that the government plans to adjust the timing of National Health Insurance eligibility for them, where under current regulations they have to live in Taiwan for six months to be able to enjoy the NHI. However, it doesn’t make sense for the government to treat these people as human beings while excluding blue-collar workers. When indeed has the government ever treated blue-collar workers as people? These conditions have never been applied to blue-collar workers before.

For blue-collar workers, these human conditions seem to have never even existed. In the past, the competent authority is the Ministry of Labor. But now it is led by the National Development Council under the name of economic development. It is rather hard to impede this legislation from passage. We do hope blue-collar workers can share the same standards. But we must erased the parts on internship and tax-free.

“What is really disgusting about this draft is this: it deals with people, but only considers white-collar workers as people. Why is that?”